Not really? this does allow more creative freedom, people don't have to worry about spy's coat being in the way when making cosmetics, its what medics problem with cosmetics is too, just because a mesh is gone doesn't mean that he's gonna always be changed beyond recognition, while yes there's face cosmetics for spy that do that, people like those cosmetics, i'm one of the people who genuinely like them, there's nothing that will happened that hasn't happened already, all that will change is the unlimited freedom of spy cosmetics that wont be limited to his gloves, pants, or suit. Tbh I hope this gets added, cus id love to see more skin-revealing spy cosmetics, such as just a normal shirt with no gloves. It's something that all mercs should have, because no more oversized cosmetics that feel wrong, such as scout legs that give him giga calves

Totally disagree, this does open more opportunity for creativity. You know those cosmetics that look bad because they've got to model over existing geometry? This would immediately fix that issue. If anything, additional bodygroups should've been added years and years ago. This is future proofing item creation.

Originally posted by Simply:

Totally disagree, this does open more opportunities for creativity. You know those cosmetics that look bad because they've got to model over existing geometry? This would immediately fix that issue. If anything, additional bodygroups should've been added years and years ago. This is future proofing item creation.

Agreed, while I never personally had a problem with classes such as soldier, stuff like scout pants, and medic's coat, spy's suit, and demo's vest are massive examples of why these body groups should exist. so much is limited by them existing

Originally posted by Zillon7881:

...because no more oversized cosmetics that feel wrong, such as scout legs that give him giga calves

Originally posted by Simply:

Totally disagree, this does open more opportunity for creativity. You know those cosmetics that look bad because they've got to model over existing geometry? This would immediately fix that issue. If anything, additional bodygroups should've been added years and years ago. This is future proofing item creation.

I didn't think about this, that's a huge plus, because there are multiple cosmetics I would enjoy if this weren't a problem.

However, I'm still worried about new bodygroups that could completely change what the class looks like.
For example, a body group that completely removed Medic's white lab coat, which is integral to Medic's identity; or a body group that removes Demoman's vest.

its not really tbh, if that's the case then spy's suit is integral to his or sniper's glasses is or scout's bag is or heavy bullets are or so on and so forth. Demos vest doesn't make him demoman, demoman's vest doesn't make his ♥♥♥♥ explode its just a character design, the key thing that is integeral to their character is the fact medic.. is a medic and demoman.. is demoman, their still the mad doctor and the explosive scottsman at the end of the day, i even managed to remove the hanging bit of medics coat and i think he looks 10x cooler with cosmetics cus of it. I hate sounding like "I'm more popular, meaning my points are better" or sum ♥♥♥♥, but I make loadouts or character designs in GMod ALOT and ♥♥♥♥ like these would make just basic loadouts or cosmetics cooler, for demo, medic, scout, so on.

Originally posted by Zillon7881:

its not really tbh, if that's the case then spy's suit is integral to his or sniper's hat is or scout's bag is or heavy bullets are or so on and so forth.

Yes, almost all of these are integral too, in my opinion. I hate Heavy without his bandolier, it's too iconic and helps his Minigun stand out against his brown vest. The same thing if Spy could remove his suit or Demoman his vest.
Sniper's hat, however, isn't integral, because it's an extraneous portion of the Sniper's model; it can be replaced with something else and it wouldn't stick out too much, which is why customizable hats work so well--even better than misc comsetics--and is why, for a while, there were only hats.

The central portions of the mercs' playermodels are made to be iconic and bright to guide the players' eyes to the weapon they're holding (Well developer commentary, node 13/17) and to assist in class recognition, which is why I think letting workshop creators change that in radical ways with new bodygroups could be a problem if done poorly.
Don't get me wrong: if used correctly, these new bodygroups for Spy and the other mercs could make for some sick cosmetics, I'm just cautious of the problematic things that could be made and added to the game with these bodygroups.

Originally posted by Zillon7881:

Demos vest doesn't make him demoman, demoman's vest doesn't make his ♥♥♥♥ explode its just a character design, the key thing that is integeral to their character is the fact medic.. is a medic and demoman.. is demoman, their still the mad doctor and the explosive scottsman at the end of the day, i even managed to remove the hanging bit of medics coat and i think he looks 10x cooler with cosmetics cus of it.

For personality, sure it doesn't matter what they're wearing, but from a purely gameplay-visual perspective, what makes the medic Medic and the demoman Demoman? It's their iconic clothing, which determines their color palette and color placement that directly aids in class and weapon recognition. Distinct silhouettes aren't silver bullets for these things; you need more than that to make recognizing a class in a split second in the chaos of TF2 possible, and this is what their clothing does. Giving workshop creators the power to change that, again, could allow for significant issues if used wrong.

Sorry this reply is so long, I just really like these sorts of topics.

At this point, I give up. If you don't like it, you don't like it. Oh well, [they also literally made Heavy Bandolier now a toggle-able thing so the point of heavies Bandolier being a integeral part cant be used when it can literally be toggled off for customizable reasons]

Originally posted by Zillon7881:

[they also literally made Heavy Bandolier now a toggle-able thing so the point of heavies Bandolier being a integeral part cant be used when it can literally be toggled off for customizable reasons]

They also added lime green paint; not an excuse to make more bad moves.

Certain workshoppers would 100% abuse this kind of "creative freedom" & start making ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cosmetics as a "joke" and with how utterly retarded Eric (or whoever chooses workshop submissions) is when it comes to accepting workshop submissions they'd get their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ submissions accepted (past 5+ years are proof of this).

Not to mention how it would break "no cosmetic" mods (tbh more of a mod problem that'd get fixed quickly, but still important to mention).
Until valve implements a working "disable cosmetics" option it's a no from me.

Valve paying people (and not adhering to their own rules themselves) to make cosmetics (and content in general) for them is the reason the workshop has a monopoly problem and one of many reason this game went to ♥♥♥♥.

PS: The workshop isn't an art gallery, that's what the "Artwork" section in the community tab is for.

lol

Originally posted by Ted Beneke:

lol

It's straight up rude to disregard my concerns with just a "lol". Have some dignity.
Cosmetics directly impact gameplay, that is a fact, so new bodygroups like this could yield cosmetics that negatively impact gameplay, IF they are used poorly.

Originally posted by Zillon7881:

At this point, I give up. If you don't like it, you don't like it. Oh well, [they also literally made Heavy Bandolier now a toggle-able thing so the point of heavies Bandolier being a integeral part cant be used when it can literally be toggled off for customizable reasons]

Also, it's not about whether I like it or not. There are objective reasons why cosmetics using these bodygroups could be bad for the game in ways not seen yet, as I said previously.
But here's an example: imagine a bodygroup that completely removes Heavy's torso, and it was used to make a cosmetic that made him thin, which I could totally see being made. That would obviously ruin class recognition, because Heavy was designed to be fat.

I like these sort of bodygroups, and I never said I didn't; all I'm saying is that I worry about how they could be used.

Originally posted by Mcfighter2:

Originally posted by Ted Beneke:

lol

It's straight up rude to disregard my concerns with just a "lol". Have some dignity.
Cosmetics directly impact gameplay, that is a fact, so new bodygroups like this could yield cosmetics that negatively impact gameplay, IF they are used poorly.

What did you expect from a workshopper that give 0 ♥♥♥♥♥ about the game, its state or its future?

Take a look at his workshop items and you'll see how little of a ♥♥♥♥ he gives.
Not to mention the fact that he's a part of the monopoly that is the TF2 Emporium.